You can’t swing a dead cat without hitting a Russian in the Trump campaign

There were no note takers allowed at Donny and Vlad’s first date, with only the principals (Trump, Putin), their foreign ministers (Tillerson, Lavrov), and translators for each side present. The Trump-Putin Bromance Is Back On. So there is no official record or transcript of what was actually said in this meeting (well, maybe the Russians have a recording). Both men, known to be world-class liars, are free to claim whatever they want in an effort to spin their first date.

Our always insecure egomaniacal Twitter-troll-in-chief was so enamored with the man who engaged in a cyber war against the United States to hack our U.S. election for the purpose of making him president — “Oh Vlad, you bad boy! You really shouldn’t have! But thank you! It’s lovely” — that he says he wants to continue dating.  ‘Time to Move Forward’ on Russia, Trump Says, as Criticism Intensifies:

President Trump’s account of his lengthy and closely scrutinized closed-door meeting with Mr. Putin on the sidelines of theGroup of 20 summit meeting came in a series of Twitter posts the morning after he had returned from the gathering in Hamburg, Germany. They appeared to be an attempt to move beyond the controversy after Moscow characterized the election discussion as a meeting of minds rather than a showdown between the American president and his Russian counterpart.

* * *

On Sunday, it appeared that Mr. Putin had to some degree succeeded in doing just that, after Mr. Trump’s refusal to answer questions about the encounter essentially ceded the narrative to Mr. Putin.


Mr. Trump broke with tradition and declined to hold a news conference at the end of the G-20 summit meeting, instead sending three top officials to brief a small group of reporters on Air Force One as he was returning on Saturday to Washington. None of them would address the claims of Mr. Putin and Sergey V. Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, that Mr. Trump had seemed satisfied with Mr. Putin’s denial of involvement in the hacking.

Mr. Trump’s tweets on Sunday did little to dispel the notion that he had backed down on the election meddling issue. He characterized his position as an “opinion” and asserted that he was prepared to team with Moscow — which United States intelligence agencies say carried out a large-scale effort to interfere with American democracy last year, and will try to again — on forming an “impenetrable Cyber Security unit” to thwart future breaches.

“I strongly pressed President Putin twice about Russian meddling in our election,” Mr. Trump said in one post. “He vehemently denied it. I’ve already given my opinion.”

* * *

President Trump tried without success on Sunday to put the matter of Russia’s election meddling behind him, insisting that he had “strongly pressed” President Vladimir V. Putin on the matter twice in a private meeting last week and declaring that it was “time to move forward.”

But if Mr. Trump believed his willingness to raise the election interference directly with Mr. Putin would quiet questions about whether he could be trusted to stand up to Moscow — an issue that has shadowed his presidency — he grappled instead on Sunday with the reality that the meeting might have raised more suspicions than it quelled.

Lawmakers in both parties said Mr. Trump had appeased the Russian president by failing to insist that he was responsible for the breach or threaten any consequences, and empowered him by appearing willing to partner on a cybersecurity effort to prevent future incursions.

“You are hurting your ability to govern this nation by forgiving and forgetting and empowering,” Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, said of Mr. Trump, calling his meeting with Mr. Putin “disastrous.”

“The more he talks about this in terms of not being sure, the more he throws our intelligence communities under the bus, the more he’s willing to forgive and forget Putin, the more suspicion,” Mr. Graham added in an interview on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” “And I think it’s going to dog his presidency until he breaks this cycle.”

* * *

Mr. Trump’s highlighting of the potential cybersecurity initiative with Moscow — which he backed away from hours later saying on Twitter that  it would never happen — prompted derision from Republicans and Democrats who said Russia was the last country the United States should trust on such matters.

“I am sure that Vladimir Putin could be of enormous assistance in that effort, since he’s doing the hacking,” Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona and the chairman of the Armed Services Committee, said on CBS’s “Face the Nation.”

Representative Adam B. Schiff, Democrat of California and the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, called the idea “dangerously naïve.”

“I don’t think we can expect the Russians to be any kind of a credible partner in some cybersecurity unit,” he said on CNN’s “State of the Union.” “If that’s our best election defense, we might as well just mail our ballot boxes to Moscow.”

Also over the weekend there was this report from the New York Times, Trump Team Met With Lawyer Linked to Kremlin During Campaign:

Two weeks after Donald J. Trump clinched the Republican presidential nomination last year, his eldest son arranged a meeting at Trump Tower in Manhattan with a Russian lawyer who has connections to the Kremlin, according to confidential government records described to The New York Times.

The previously unreported meeting was also attended by Mr. Trump’s campaign chairman at the time, Paul J. Manafort, as well as the president’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, according to interviews and the documents, which were outlined by people familiar with them.

While President Trump has been dogged by revelations of undisclosed meetings between his associates and Russians, this episode at Trump Tower on June 9, 2016, is the first confirmed private meeting between a Russian national and members of Mr. Trump’s inner circle during the campaign. It is also the first time that his son Donald Trump Jr. is known to have been involved in such a meeting.

Representatives of Donald Trump Jr. and Mr. Kushner confirmed the meeting after The Times approached them with information about it. In a statement, Donald Jr. described the meeting as primarily about an adoption program. The statement did not address whether the presidential campaign was discussed.

Donny Jr., also a Twitter-troll, is a world-class liar like his old man as well. It’s a Trump family value. The Times follows up its report today with this reporting, Trump’s Son Met With Russian Lawyer After Being Promised Damaging Information on Clinton:

President Trump’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton before agreeing to meet with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign, according to three advisers to the White House briefed on the meeting and two others with knowledge of it.

The meeting was also attended by his campaign chairman at the time, Paul J. Manafort, and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Mr. Manafort and Mr. Kushner recently disclosed the meeting, though not its content, in confidential government documents described to The New York Times.

The Times reported the existence of the meeting on Saturday. But in subsequent interviews, the advisers and others revealed the motivation behind it.

The meeting — at Trump Tower on June 9, 2016, two weeks after Donald J. Trump clinched the Republican nomination — points to the central question in federal investigations of the Kremlin’s meddling in the presidential election: whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians. The accounts of the meeting represent the first public indication that at least some in the campaign were willing to accept Russian help.

While President Trump has been dogged by revelations of undisclosed meetings between his associates and the Russians, the episode at Trump Tower is the first such confirmed private meeting involving his inner circle during the campaign — as well as the first one known to have included his eldest son. It came at an inflection point in the campaign, when Donald Trump Jr., who served as an adviser and a surrogate, was ascendant and Mr. Manafort was consolidating power.

It is unclear whether the Russian lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, actually produced the promised compromising information about Mrs. Clinton. But the people interviewed by The Times about the meeting said the expectation was that she would do so.

When he was first asked about the meeting on Saturday, Donald Trump Jr. said that it was primarily about adoptions and mentioned nothing about Mrs. Clinton.

But on Sunday, presented with The Times’s findings, he offered a new account. In a statement, he said he had met with the Russian lawyer at the request of an acquaintance from the 2013 Miss Universe pageant, which his father took to Moscow. “After pleasantries were exchanged,” he said, “the woman stated that she had information that individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Mrs. Clinton. Her statements were vague, ambiguous and made no sense. No details or supporting information was provided or even offered. It quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information.”

He said she then turned the conversation to adoption of Russian children and the Magnitsky Act, an American law that blacklists suspected Russian human rights abusers. The 2012 law so enraged President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia that he halted American adoptions of Russian children.

“It became clear to me that this was the true agenda all along and that the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting,” Mr. Trump said.

Two people briefed on the meeting said the intermediary was Rob Goldstone, a former British tabloid journalist and the president of a company called Oui 2 Entertainment who has worked with the Miss Universe pageant. He did not immediately respond to messages seeking comment.

Mark Corallo, a spokesman for the president’s lawyer, said on Sunday that “the president was not aware of and did not attend the meeting.”

Donald Trump appears to suffer under the delusion that as long as he himself did not directly participate in collusion, he is insulated from charges that his family members and campaign staff colluded with the Russians. So he is willing to throw any of them under the bus. He obviously does not understand how a conspiracy charge operates. He should ask the mafia bosses he used to pal around with who are now serving time in federal prison on conspiracy charges to educate himself.

Lawyers for Mr. Kushner referred to their statement a day earlier, confirming that he voluntarily disclosed the meeting but referring questions about it to Donald Trump Jr. Mr. Manafort declined to comment. In his statement, Donald Trump Jr. said he asked Mr. Manafort and Mr. Kushner to attend, but did not tell them what the meeting was about.

Political campaigns collect opposition research from many quarters but rarely from sources linked to foreign governments.

* * *

On Sunday morning on Fox News, the White House chief of staff, Reince Priebus, described the Trump Tower meeting as a “big nothing burger.”

“Talking about issues of foreign policy, issues related to our place in the world, issues important to the American people is not unusual,” he said.

But Representative Adam B. Schiff of California, the leading Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, one of the panels investigating Russian election interference, said he wanted to question “everyone that was at that meeting.”

“There’s no reason for this Russian government advocate to be meeting with Paul Manafort or with Mr. Kushner or the president’s son if it wasn’t about the campaign and Russia policy,” Mr. Schiff said after the initial Times report.

Ms. Veselnitskaya, the Russian lawyer invited to the Trump Tower meeting, is best known for mounting a multipronged attack against the Magnitsky Act.

The adoption impasse is a frequently used talking point for opponents of the act. Ms. Veselnitskaya’s campaign against the law has also included attempts to discredit the man after whom it was named, Sergei L. Magnitsky, a lawyer and auditor who died in 2009 in mysterious circumstances in a Russian prison after exposing one of the biggest corruption scandals during Mr. Putin’s rule.

Ms. Veselnitskaya’s clients include state-owned businesses and a senior government official’s son, whose company was under investigation in the United States at the time of the meeting. Her activities and associations had previously drawn the attention of the F.B.I., according to a former senior law enforcement official.

Ms. Veselnitskaya said in a statement on Saturday that “nothing at all about the presidential campaign” was discussed at the Trump Tower meeting. She recalled that after about 10 minutes, either Mr. Kushner or Mr. Manafort left the room.

She said she had “never acted on behalf of the Russian government” and “never discussed any of these matters with any representative of the Russian government.”

The Trump Tower meeting was disclosed to government officials in recent weeks, when Mr. Kushner, who is also a senior White House aide, filed a revised version of a confidential form required to obtain a security clearance.

* * *

Mr. Manafort, the former campaign chairman, also recently disclosed the meeting, and Donald Trump Jr.’s role in organizing it, to congressional investigators who had questions about his foreign contacts, according to people familiar with the events. Neither Mr. Manafort nor Mr. Kushner was required to disclose the content of the meeting.

* * *

Because he does not serve in the administration and does not have a security clearance, Donald Trump Jr. was not required to disclose his foreign contacts. Federal and congressional investigators have not publicly asked for any records that would require his disclosure of Russian contacts.

But in an interview with The Times in March, he denied participating in any campaign-related meetings with Russian nationals. “Did I meet with people that were Russian? I’m sure, I’m sure I did,” he said. “But none that were set up. None that I can think of at the moment. And certainly none that I was representing the campaign in any way.”

That was a lie.

In addition to her campaign against the Magnitsky Act, Ms. Veselnitskaya represents powerful players in Russia. Among her clients is Denis Katsyv, the Russian owner of Prevezon Holdings, an investment company based in Cyprus. He is the son of Petr Katsyv, the vice president of the state-owned Russian Railways and a former deputy governor of the Moscow region. In a civil forfeiture case in New York, the Justice Department alleged that Prevezon had helped launder money linked to the $230 million corruption scheme exposed by Mr. Magnitsky by putting it in real estate and bank accounts. Prevezon recently settled the case for $6 million without admitting wrongdoing.

Ms. Veselnitskaya and her client also hired a team of political and legal operatives in the United States. The team included Rinat Akhmetshin, an émigré to the United States who once served as a Soviet military officer and who has been called a Russian political gun for hire. Fusion GPS, a consulting firm that produced an intelligence dossier that contained unverified allegations about Mr. Trump, was also hired to do research for Prevezon.

The status of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into the Trump-Putin cmapaign is unknown, but he has assembled a veteran team of prosecutors and agents to dig into any possible collusion. They clearly have their work cut out for them.

40 Responses to You can’t swing a dead cat without hitting a Russian in the Trump campaign

  1. Awesome title on this one, AzBM.

  2. that trump probably is corrupt is not the question. is their evidence of trump committing a crime with russia about the election. that is question that is inferred but not proven. going into court and saying where their is smoke their is fire. you would be laughed out of court. the voters knew about trump’s behavior and elected him president anyway and may not take kindly to trying to get around them. pedestal tried to explain the difference today between the dnc colluding with the ukraine to get dirt on trump campaign chairman manafort. thats just normal oppo research and don jr. meeting with russian lawyer who said she had info on clinton ;but didn’t. thats treason! has one cnn talking head said today they should all be locked up for their crimes. and the band played on! that trump or his family may have committed financial crimes is possible and can be got for them instead of collusion will not set well with the half the country that voted for trump. remember what mecham’s supporters did to those who impeached him.

    • “…the voters knew about trump’s behavior and elected him president anyway…”

      Not exactly true. The depth and breadth of the Trump family shenanigans over time have yet to be presented clearly and cohesively to the public. That happens when some investigative journalist(s) has enough of the dots connected to write it. We aren’t there yet.

      Those Trump voters you are so fond of didn’t know squat about Trump. They listened to his trash talk at the Klan rallies and it sounded good to them. Now he’s trying to take away Granny’s medicaid and, if he succeeds, maybe that is the day they understand what they really voted for. Or maybe after a few more years of working at Walmart or not at all with no prospects of one of those good paying jobs he promised.

      • However, what Trump voters did know him, like his being a white supremacist, a misogynist, the Birther King, etc… definitely appealed to them.
        It wasn’t overlooked, it was appealing. That is an important difference. That’s who they are.

      • And, of course, the billionaires and multi-millionaires just want lower taxes or no tax at all.
        They would vote for the Devil himself, and damn near did.

      • “The depth and breadth of the Trump family shenanigans over time have yet to be presented clearly and cohesively to the public. That happens when some investigative journalist(s) has enough of the dots connected to write it. We aren’t there yet.”

        Or, there isn’t anything there and all the waiting in the world isn’t going to result in something being presented “clearly and cohesively” to anyone. There is a very good chance we will never get there because there is no there to get to.

  3. WOW!!! Talking about your basic shark feeding frenzy!!!! The Trump’s talk about a meeting they had with Russians during the early days of the campaign and Tom, Liza, Bill, Wileybud, et. al., go into hyperdrive discussing all the ramifications of a meeting they didn’t even know about, and wouldn’t have known about had the Trumps not told them about it. It gladdens my heart to see them all so giddy and excited and full of hope once again. The last few months have not been good for them and their will to keep the accusations up after having so many setbacks has been sorely tested. Granted, nothing happened at the meeting, but it was a meeting, dog gone it! And that is the best morsel they have been thrown in a long time. Enjoy it, my friends!! ;o)

  4. This is interesting…

    What Do the Russians ‘Have’ on the Trump Family? Fear.

    Some thoughts on Junior’s changing story.
    BY CHARLES P. PIERCE
    JUL 10, 2017

    http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a56218/trump-junior-russian-meeting/

    • Pierce’s conclusion. But read the article, it’s good.

      “What I believe I see here is an incredibly corrupt American family doing business with criminal gangs that are way, way out of their league, and that are in league with the institutions of government, and the formidable security apparatus, of an authoritarian state. Talk about punching out of your weight class. This isn’t cheating some poor subcontractor. These people throw you out windows. And the Trumps have being doing business in this financial abattoir for years. This doesn’t make them sharp. This makes them compliant minnows in a shark tank.”

      • For Sure Not Tom

        Good read. Putin’s actions since the Magnitsky Act was passed are telling.

        Putin banned US adoptions of Russian orphans in response to the Magnitsky Act.

        Sure, it was a let down for some deserving people who wanted a child to raise and love, but holy crap! He stopped f’n orphans from finding good homes!

        He’s punishing orphans!

        We’re dealing with Super-Villian levels of evil, and Donald J. Trump can’t find it within himself to say a single bad thing about Putin or Russia.

        Yeah, they got dirt on Donnie Babyhands.

        • “We’re dealing with Super-Villian levels of evil…”

          O-o-o-o! A “Super-Villain”!! That is high praise, even for someone you consider to be as villainous as you do Trump. But given the high dudgeon with which you approach the suject of Trump, maybe “Super-Villain” is appropriate. I know I find it to be a delightful turn of phrase. Kudos to you!

          “Yeah, they got dirt on Donnie Babyhands.”

          Even though I know you are as wrong about this as you have been about your other epiphanies regarding Trump, I feel a little bad for you and I wish, just a little bit, that you could win one. (Sigh!) I just don’t think it is going to be this one…

  5. Truth. But it isn’t going to happen.

    Seth Abramson‏Verified account @SethAbramson 8h8 hours ago

    The ONLY thing America needs to hear from Trump today is not BS about Obama or Comey but an explanation of WHAT he knew and WHEN he knew it.

  6. Frances Perkins

    There is nothing there. And if there is, it’s fake news. Or Obama and Hillary forced my family to do it. The only difference between the New York mobs, is that the Sicilians are much smarter.

    • For Sure Not Tom

      Yesterday Trump Tweeted that he was forming a joint US/Russian cyber crime task force.

      Today he walked that back, because “duh”.

      • “Yesterday Trump Tweeted that he was forming a joint US/Russian cyber crime task force. Today he walked that back, because “duh”.”

        Thoreau said, “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.”

        Trump simply demonstrated that he has the ability to recognize that some ideas need to be nipped in the bud and he is not too arrogant to admit he made a mistake. I am glad that he recognized that was a stupid idea and backed away from it.

        • “Trump simply demonstrated….”

          Bwhahahahaha. Now that’s a good one, Steve.

          Setting up a cyber crime task force with the number one cyber crime criminal entity of all time might have some problems. Yes, bad idea.

          • “Bwhahahahaha. Now that’s a good one, Steve.”

            I am happy I could make you smile this morning, Liza. I will admit that when I wrote that, my tongue was a little in my cheek. ;o)

        • Steve, the quote is from Ralph Waldo Emerson (Self Reliance) but they were friends so you are close. Here’s one of my favorites and very similar by Walt Whitman: “Do I contradict myself? Very well then, I contradict myself. I am large. I contain multitudes.” And one for the pedant in me from Thoreau: “Our life is fritted away by detail.”

          • “Steve, the quote is from Ralph Waldo Emerson (Self Reliance) but they were friends so you are close.”

            Thank you for the correction, Doug! I have always thought that was Thoreau and quoted him many times. I like Emerson as well, but Thoreau was always one of my favorites. At least now I can speak correctly when I quote it. Thanks, again!

    • I remember an Angelica Huston line about the mob from The Grifters: “They love money more than they love their children. And God do they love their children!”

  7. For Sure Not Tom

    A Russian agent called Donald Jr. promising dirt on an American politician, and Donald Trump Jr., being a Patriotic American, called the FBI…

    …is what should have happened, instead he colluded with Russia.

    For a successful Manhattan New York Crime Family, the Trump’s sure are dumb.

    • I’m sure you’re alluding to when a Bush campaign debate briefing book fell into the hands of the Gore campaign, turning the book over to the FBI is exactly what the Gore campaign did. And rightfully so.

      • For Sure Not Tom

        No, I forgot about that!

        From The Weekly Standard, OCT 09, 2000 By TUCKER CARLSON (of all people!)

        “ON SEPTEMBER 15, Joe Allbaugh, George W. Bush’s campaign manager, got a call from the FBI. An agent informed Allbaugh that one of Al Gore’s closest advisers, former representative Tom Downey, had received confidential information from the Bush campaign, including a book of internal strategy memos and a videotape of Bush engaged in debate preparation. The materials had arrived at Downey’s office in an anonymous package postmarked Austin, Texas. According to Downey’s lawyer, Downey looked at the tape and the briefing book only long enough to determine that he shouldn’t be looking at them. Then he turned them over to the feds.”

        Carlson’s article is about mostly speculation about who leaked the material, he didn’t have an answer. I’m sure he’ll weasel his way around his own words later on his show.

        I know people like Karl Rove and Newt Gingrich laugh at Dems for losing elections because they have principle’s, but people like Rove and Gingrich and Bannon and Trump are not real American Patriots.

        • You’re right about those clowns not being real American Patriots. As are those who over zealously wrap themselves in the flag. Remember when those who criticized the Iraq war were labelled as being unpatriotic? Our favorite chicken hawks (Bush & Cheney) & their supporters equating criticism of their war conduct as not supporting the troops?

          When Trump and his minions speak I reminded of that Mark Twain(?) quote about the “louder he talked of his honor the faster we counted our spoons.”

          • For Sure Not Tom

            You will never go wrong quoting Twain.

            And now I’m remembering Debategate, where St. Ronnie proved he was less than a saint, just another scummy politician.

        • “I know people like Karl Rove and Newt Gingrich laugh at Dems for losing elections because they have principle’s…”

          Tom, having principals has never cost a democrat an election because principals have never been very high on the democrats list of important priorities.

  8. Well, the Idiot-Buffoon-in-Chief has not yet tackled the NYT report this morning. He is just getting around to defending Baby Girl Ivanka for being POTUS briefly. And a comment about GOP deathcare and a random comment about Comey.

    Such leadership.

    Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 3h3 hours ago
    If Chelsea Clinton were asked to hold the seat for her mother,as her mother gave our country away, the Fake News would say CHELSEA FOR PRES!

    Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 3h3 hours ago
    When I left Conference Room for short meetings with Japan and other countries, I asked Ivanka to hold seat. Very standard. Angela M agrees!

    Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 4h4 hours ago
    I cannot imagine that Congress would dare to leave Washington without a beautiful new HealthCare bill fully approved and ready to go!

    Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 4h4 hours ago
    James Comey leaked CLASSIFIED INFORMATION to the media. That is so illegal!

  9. Can you help me understand collusion?
    A Russian lawyer with strong ties to the Kremlin calls Trump Jr. and lines up a meeting. Trump Jr. agrees to the meeting and invites Kushner and Manafort to come along. The lawyer indicates she has something the Trump campaign would be interested in—dirt on H. Clinton. In turn, she wants some consideration of Russian adoptees in the U.S. The meeting takes place. Sure sounds like a quid pro quo to me but is it collusion or perhaps conspiracy?

    • is it a crime? I doubt it. collusion or interference are not crimes otherwise boner and netanyahu would be in jail cells. this porn for liberal elitists and the media. notice when the media brings up these stories they never end them by saying and this is the criminal statute broken and give its code number. did russia send in their marines to michigan to stop the detroit voting machines from counting 70,000 clinton votes? like when we sent in the marines to the dominican republic because we didn’t like the way the vote was going?

      • For Sure Not Tom

        Or, you could use the computer you’re posting from to look up collusion and Trump;

        http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/may/31/gregg-jarrett/fox-news-hosts-wrong-no-law-forbids-russia-trump-c/

        You can find other legal scholars with similar opinions if you turn off Fox News and look.

        It may end up being called corruption, so what? Don’t let the right fool you with their “collusion” talking point, what Trump, the Trump campaign, the Trump and Kushner families have done is absolutely illegal.

        We’re dealing with a sitting POTUS, and a complicit GOP House and Senate, so Mueller is only going to get one shot, so he’s going to be very thorough.

        And there are a few state AG’s looking into the Trump family as well.

        Be patient. Most people knew Trump was corrupt years ago, FFS, he paid a 3 million dollar fine for money laundering in one of his casino’s, he’s worked on projects in Islamic countries with funding from the Iranian army, Russian’s have been buying up his properties in NY and Florida for years with questionable money, none of what is coming out now should be news to anyone who’s been reading the business section of the paper for the last few decades.

        • I am one of those people who didn’t keep up with Trump. I remember certain things, the kinds of things you try not to hear (like about his marriages and divorces), but they somehow get through. And, of course, there was the Trump University scam and his reality show that you couldn’t pay me to watch.

          It’s really when he became the Birther King that I actually noticed him.

          But his “projects”, the stuff you’re talking about, I didn’t know any of that. Trump wasn’t on my radar, he’s just too grotesque, too racist, and too full of himself for my taste.

          And now he’s the so called president, or occupying the WH more accurately.

          • For Sure Not Tom

            Hey Liza, I’m referring to the Trumpaloompa’s who defend the indefensible and say the left is attacking Trump just because Clinton lost.

            The people who say Trump basically walks on water and can do no wrong, no matter what he does or how badly he behaves, it’s all just sour grapes by the Dems.

            No one should have had to keep up on Trump’s scandals, that was the media’s job, and they failed, and they did it for ratings.

          • Agreed. IMO, the media owns this one. All that free advertising and no information. They did it for ratings, absolutely. And Bernie, it was like he didn’t exist in the msm despite tens of thousands of people at his rallies. They own it.

        • “You can find other legal scholars with similar opinions if you turn off Fox News and look.”

          And…you can find plenty of legal opinions – I would even say the majority of opinions – that arrive at the opposite opinion. This is not a cut and dried issue, particularly based on what we know now.

          “Don’t let the right fool you with their “collusion” talking point, what Trump, the Trump campaign, the Trump and Kushner families have done is absolutely illegal.”

          Unfortunately, the evidence – especially where Trump, the individual, is concerned – really isn’t there, except in the most flimsy and circumstancial sense.

          “…he paid a 3 million dollar fine for money laundering in one of his casino’s…”

          Which means nothing where these accusations are concerned. A civil fine has nothing to do with colluding with the Russians. And a civil fine does not indicate a pre-disposition to committing felonies, either.

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