Posted by AzBlueMeanie:
Conservative columnist David Brooks was a guest on NBC's Meet The Press on Sunday. As reported by crooksandliars com David Brooks: Limbaugh health care rhetoric 'insane':
Conservative columnist David Brooks thinks Rush Limbaugh has gone too far in comparing President Barack Obama to Hitler. Brooks was stunned by the comparison when he first saw it on NBC's Meet the Press Sunday. "I hadn't seen the Rush Limbaugh thing. That is insane. What he's saying is insane," said Brooks.
Brooks went on to criticize Sarah Palin for saying that health care reform would create a "death panel" to euthanize older Americans. "Again, that's crazy. The crazies are attacking the plan because it'll cut off granny, and that's simply not true. That simply is not going to happen," explained Brooks.
There may have been something of a revelation from Brooks. He indicates towards the end of this video clip that the Obama White House will announce its plan by the end of the month. This means that they are not waiting to see what Sen. "Mad Max" Baucus and his gang of six "Baucus Caucus" on the Senate Finance Committee will produce by September 15. They need "the plan" to sell to Congress and the American people, and to put an end to the speculative nonsense.
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Steve,
I want to be there when one of your kids comes down with something major that you cannot afford to pay for “out-of-pocket” (or are you independently wealthy, where it doesn’t matter?). When this happens, I want to be there to hear you say “Don’t let my child suffer; treat him, and make the government (or other people who have insurance) pay for it.” Or do you want us to believe you will say “Hey, it’s OK, the child is tough and can endure.” It has to be one or the other: which will it be?
Yet it would kill the Insurance industry, which employs untold numbers of Americans. Why would you support that?
As it stands now, you make the choice whether to purchase insurance through your employer or not. You’re not required too. Whether your insurance is portable or not is a choice made completely by the insured.
The employer-sponsored health insurance model is an accident of history and is entirely outdated. It is dying a gradual death on its own and this trend will not be reversed by anything Congress does.
What people want is the security of having health insurance even if they lose their job. And they want portability, so they have health insurance even when they change jobs.
Many companies would like to free up capital now invested in health insurance plans to expand their business and pay better wages to be more competitive. Decoupling health insurance from one’s employer would be an economic benefit and would encourage business expansion and job growth.
You’re welcome. =)
Listen, for me, the major problem I have with the healthcare plan is losing the right to choose. If this thing passes, my entire financial plan will blow up. I don’t really have an issue if people are able to choose to participate, but that is not the case. I will end up having to contribute more of my $ (in taxes) than I currently do now.
If y’all can get it re-written to be a permanent, 100% optional program in which I can choose not to contribute any of my tax dollars, I’ll be behind it. Until then, no thanks. I’ll stick with what I got.
BTW, if this thing passes, you can kiss your employer benefits goodbye. There will be no more incentive for your employer to offer them, and why should they spend thousands of dollars per year on each employee when those employees can get government coverage for free?
Brice, thank you for subsidizig my health insurance.I pay no premiums and my deductible is $250 (the government uses your tax dollars to give tax breaks to companies offering insurace to their employees, like mine)
I “get” your reasoning, and you are right,it makes sense and it works for you. Not for the majority though.
That’s sounds great! If you pay! Just kidding!
Steve:
Even though we are obviously in disagreement, I’d share a meal with you anytime!
OK! I simply disagree with you! Let’s see what happens in the fall. No sense carrying on the conversation any further. I wish you and your family godspeed.
Steve:
Why? I have chosen to pay for my own and my children’s healthcare out of pocket. Even if they end up in the hospital for something, I will stay pay far less than someone with insurance. I don’t think you understand how it works. Maybe read it again? I have insurance that covers me (and anyone in my family) for any illness or injury that costs more than $10,000 (up to $2.5 million). If it costs less than that, I pay out of pocket. In return, I pay MUCH lower premiums than the average consumer, and actually save money, even if someone becomes seriously ill or injured. Note, I paid for my wife’s pre- and post-natal care, and delivery in cash, and have still saved a little over $16,000 in the past 3 years.
As to the incentive: We’re Americans. We do what we want. Enriching a doctor isn’t going to make us quit ‘misbehaving’. Heck, isn’t that what this whole debate is about? Enriching doctors and insurance companies?
You’re right on the work hard, poor generalization. The fact is, however, that most people who are uninsured now are uninsured by choice. Either by making the same choice I have, or by not elevating their job position. Even Mcdonald’s subsidizes benefits for their employees. Now, of course, that doesn’t apply to everyone. And for them, either they can get coverage through the State or the Fed. Government. Don’t forget, we already provide health care for anyone who cannot afford it. For anyone else, they can always go to the nearest emergency room for treatment.
I believe that Healthcare is a right, but that doesn’t mean the government should pay for it. It would be akin to saying that since Freedom of the Press or Speech is a right, the government should pay for all of us to have our own newspaper presses or TV shows. Or since the Second Amendment guarantees our right to own guns, the government should buy us all rifles. Just because you have a right to something, doesn’t mean the government has to provide it.
Hey Brice:
Good for you! I hope you never get sick or your children never get the H1N1 virus! I respect your choice but I would rather have my Medicare and pension supplementary insurance from teaching 25 years. England has an idea: Doctors get additional payments if their patients lose weight, or stop smoking. Can we enforce this so there will be an incentive to get fit?
My liberal contribution is quality time. I volunteer at an elementary school teaching organized recess. Also, how can you say you work harder than somebody else? Isn’t that a bit subjective?
I don’t have a health care plan because I don’t need one. Any fiscally responsible adult has no need for health insurance beyond catastrophic coverage.
Let me explain.
I pay $180 a month to cover all of my family, with a $10,000 deductible, or ~$2100 a year. For standard insurance, with a ~$1000 deductible, it would cost me ~$9000 a year. It makes no sense to me to pay an extra $7000 a year. Even if someone gets seriously injured or sick, the most I pay is 10k. At the outset, worst case scenario, 10k would have gone on a credit card, now I have the deductible invested and could get it in a few days in cash. Plus, it’s making me money. I’ve been doing this for ~3 years with no major illnesses. All doctor visits, etc, paid out of pocket. I estimate I have still saved close to ~$16,000 and that includes a pregnancy and delivery paid for out of pocket. Now that I have the $10,000 deductible in cash, the ~$570 a month I save goes towards my children’s college education. That’s nothing to laugh at.
If you can manage your finances and savings, there is no reason for ‘standard’ health insurance. I’m working on the same thing for car insurance. Once you have $40k in the bank, you can self-insure. No more insurance payments ever, and you make money. I’m still thinking about this one. I’ve still got a little while to go before I can semi-permanently lock down $40k. The major problem with this could be, if you kill someone, you’re screwed. I think an umbrella policy (~$300 a year for 1mil in coverage) would take care of it, but I haven’t researched it thoroughly yet. I also don’t know if an ins co. would “umbrella” self insurance. Also, there is no comp/collision. As all our vehicles are paid for, it’s not a big deal. I always try to pay cash for vehicles. (If you haven’t figured it out, I seriously dislike transferring my wealth.)
In other words, like you, I’ve figured out that insurance is a get-rich scheme for Insurance executives. I just have a different way of solving it. Under this new proposed plan, that $580 I’ve been saving every month? Gone. Instead the government will require that I give it to them so that others can benefit from it. Why do I have to pay for those that haven’t worked as hard as I have? Now I should note, before you jump all over me, I donated $5000 to charities last year. That is a higher percentage of my income than anyone in the White House has given. On the whole, conservatives make far more charitable donations than liberals. I don’t know why that is, it just is.
Ahh! I was a little afraid of the selfish comment! I agree. They should. But this healthcare plan won’t make it happen, in fact it would encourage it. Right now, if you are obese or a smoker, or otherwise in a high risk category you either are denied coverage or charged higher premiums. This encourages people to get healthy and drop their unhealthy habits. If we get this new coverage, then everyone is covered regardless. Where is the incentive?
And yes, my children are outdoors at least 3 hours a day. More in the winter time. They swim, ride their bikes, climb trees, etc. We actually don’t even own a regular video game system(Xbox, WII, etc). My son (10) has a gameboy, but he only uses it when we are driving, or say waiting at the MVD. My daughter has a leapster, which is actually an educational game system. The baby, well….
Why don’t you have a good health care plan? Is it too expensive? Can you get it through your employer?
If Arizona has health insurance programs for children, why don’t you take advantage of it? You are right about lack of knowledge when it comes to children’s health insurance. The schools should publicize this. When I said selfish I meant Americans must develop a better, healthier lifestyle and give up some unhealthy habits. An analogy is if people tried to drive more safely and paid more attention to the road and not their cell phones, we would have less accidents and our insurance premiums wouldn’t rise so much. Do your children get enough physical exercise each day?
At least, this a very excellent discussion not like the shouting matches at the recent town halls.
Steve,
First you would have to ask yourself “Why”. Why do 9 million children not have healthcare? I have 3 children. They do not have healthcare. Why? It’s a financial choice I made. We have catastrophic insurance, that kicks in after a $10,000 deductible. We pay for all doctors visits out of pocket. Is it hard to believe that there are 3 million other Americans just like me? Now, I admit, it’s likely that some of those kids truly don’t have healthcare or parents who care. Why haven’t they taken advantage of State programs? Every state in this country offers healthcare to children. Talking about uninsured children is a non-starter without all the facts at hand.
As to your second post: I’m not sure what you mean. Are you saying that old or very ill folks should sacrifice their lives for others or what?
And another thing! Do you mean that the people in this country who are SO selfish might have to make a sacrifice. Why don’t we take better care of ourselves, diet and physical activity. I’m a real advocate of daily physical exercise especially in the elementary schools. Did you know that school age children now have a lack of vitamin D because of no sunshine and physical activity? A wellness program to prevent doctor’s visits and diseases like diabetes is what Obama is recommending.
OK! But what about the 9 million children in this wealthiest country in the world that have no health insurance? Is this right? What’s your better way?
Steve,
I agree that comparing Obama the man to Hitler the man is insanity. I don’t think that was what happened. I heard it as comparing policies to policies. It’s difficult to dispute the similarities. That doesn’t make President Obama a Nazi. Just maybe a little socialist.
As to the VA. Yes, I agree they sometimes do a good job. I have many many friends in the military, and they have reported that Tri-Care is a good plan. It’s the VA Hospitals that tend to be poor. Is that true or not? I don’t know. I don’t have personal experience to quantify it one way or the other.
I think you missed what I was saying about rationing. I don’t have any issue with folks making living wills. Everyone should have one, even if you’re a 20 year old kid. That’s not what I’m talking about. What I’m referring to is rationing of care. It’s the only way to make a program like this successful. With every American forced to participate and no exclusions for pre-existing conditions, the only possible way to keep the country from bankruptcy is to ration care. That is essentially deciding who dies, when. As I reference above, research every other country in the world with Socialized Medicine. They all ration care. All of them.
Hey Brice:
Absolutely not true!!! Rush Limbaugh should be ashamed of himself for comparing even in the slightest fashion Obama to Hitler. My Dad was a medical officer on a naval ship during WW2 and he received excellent care the last year of his life from the Veterans Admininstration, a gov’t run agency. No one told him had to die to save money! You simply and don’t want to understand what Obama is proposing. He suggests that everybody make a living will to direct the family what to do at the end. He is not telling you when to die! Where do you get this ridicuous halftruths?
I think Limblow’s comments were taken out of context. He never said Obama was Hitler, but said his policies were very similar. It seems that there is some basis for that. Nationalized banking, insurance, auto makers, health care, etc. Does he believe that Obama is going to murder 6 million Jews? I sure hope not, cause that’s just a little insane.
As for Palin. Yeah, she’s a little nutty. Did you see her farewell speech? Wow. That was interesting. I think she’s right on the death panels, though. They won’t be called that, of course, but that is what they will be. Socialized healthcare must ration treatments, or it would go bankrupt in short order. How would you feel if your parent was denied treatment that could prolong their life for 3-5 years, but was denied because it was deemed to expensive? How would you feel about the people making that decision? Does that happen now with private insurance? Sure it does. The difference being that you chose that coverage for yourself. You could have purchased better coverage, but took the risk. In this case, you will have no option to pay your own way. Ask yourself why no Americans travel to Canada or the UK for treatments, yet thousands of Canadians and Britons come here every year for care.
For a prime example of rationing (the ‘death panels’) talk about Millvina Dean, the last survivor of the Titanic Catastrophe. The NHS (UK socialized medicine) cut her off, since she was deemed not worthy. She had to sell all of her possessions to find private care, and when that ran out the stars and director of Titanic (movie) chipped in to fund her care. If you believe that won’t happen here, you need to think again. Review every country in the world with Socialized Medicine, you will find each and every one rations care. To call them ‘death panels’ though, is inflammatory and unnecessary. Better to stick to the facts.