Posted by AzBlueMeanie:
We have a certain commentor here at Blog for Arizona who has been posting comments of late about "secession" from the U.S. I can only assume he listens to the likes of Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck over at Faux News who have been fomenting this kind of extremist nonsense among the wingnuts since last November's election.
On Wednesday, the "Minnesota Loon" (small joke, it is the state bird of Minnesota) Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) appeared on wingnut Sean Hannity's radio show, and sharply reiterated her calls for revolution in America:
At this point the American people – it's like Thomas Jefferson said, a revolution every now and then is a good thing. We are at the point, Sean, of revolution. And by that, what I mean, an orderly revolution — where the people of this country wake up get up and make a decision that this is not going to happen on their watch. It won't be our children and grandchildren that are in debt. It is we who are in debt, we who will be bankrupting this country, inside of ten years, if we don't get a grip. And we can't let the Democrats achieve their ends any longer.
And there was this exchange:
Bachmann: Right now I'm a member of Congress. And I believe that my job here is to be a foreign correspondent, reporting from enemy lines. And people need to understand, this isn't a game. this isn't just a political talk show that's happening right now. This is our very freedom, and we have 230 years, a continuous link of freedom that every generation has ceded to the next generation. This may be the time when that link breaks. And I'm going to do everything I can, I know you are, to make sure that we keep that link secure. We cannot allow that link to break, because as Reagan said, America is the last great hope of mankind. where do we go–
Hannity: The last great hope of man on this Earth.
Bachmann: Do we get into an inner tube and float 90 miles to some free country? There is no free country for us to repair to. That's why it's up to us now. The founders gave everything they had to give us this freedom. Now it's up to us to give everything we can to make sure that our kids are free, too. It's that serious. I hate to be dramatic, but–
Hannity: It's not — you are not overstating this case, Congresswoman, and you don't need to apologize for it. And as a matter of fact, it's refreshing. And I can tell you, all around this country, on 535 of the best radio stations in this country, people are saying "Amen," "Hallelujah", "where have you been?"
(h/t talkingpointsmemo.com)
So Michelle Bachman and Sean Hannity view the U.S. government as a "foreign enemy." They must also view the vast majority of their fellow American citizens who elected this government and rejected their wingnut extremist politics as a "foreign enemy." The paranoid schizophrenic delusions of these wingnut extremists has crossed the line into advocating the overthrow of the government, and law enforcement had better take notice and take it seriously. These people are more than a few bricks short of a load.
Before Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck form their "Faux News Brigade" militia of wingnut extremist chickenhawks (none of these gas bags have served in the military) to overthrow the government of the United States and make Michelle Bachman a general in their conservative revolution, they had better consult their attorneys. There is a law against this kind of thing US CODE: Title 18,2385. Advocating overthrow of Government:
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
UPDATE 3/28/09: Video from Countdown with Keith Olbermann below the fold (Interview with Jonathan Alter). Time for the GOP leadership to rein in this loose canon. Any member of Congress, and any citizen by the way, may file an ethics complaint with the Congress – something my friends and relatives back in Minnesota may want to consider.
Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy
Maybe Thane and Sheapenny should start their own blogs so they can write about the topics that interest them to their heart’s content, instead of trying to hijack this blog with their rants and trying to dictate content.
I don’t give a damn about secession, it’s not even realistic after the Civil War decided the issue forever. It just shows how extremist fringe your political views are.
But just for shits ad giggles I will will simply cite this passage from the The Free Dictionary, for what its worth (I am not wasting any time on research) http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Secession+(political+science)
“Most countries have laws that punish persons who secede or attempt to secede. The United States has no specific law on secession, but the federal government and state governments maintain laws that punish Sedition and other forms of insurrection against the government. On the federal level, for example, chapter 115 of title 18 of the U.S. Code Annotated identifies Treason, rebellion, or insurrection, seditious conspiracy, and advocation of the overthrow of the government as criminal offenses punishable by several years of imprisonment and thousands of dollars in fines. These are the types of crimes that can be charged against persons who attempt to secede from the United States.”
I am sure the Dept. of Homeland Security, the FBI and the Dept. of Defense will be most interested in what you have to write on your own blogs.
“Alleging that your political opponents have a mental illness is what communists used to do – you don’t really want to go there – do you?”
Is accusing someone of having ‘Bush Derangement Syndrome’ an example of accusing your political opponents of having mental illness? I don’t think it was Communists pulling the BDS stunt out of their bag. I can see where you made the mistake Thane, the Bushies tortured, spied on their citizens without controls, ran Gulags, took over private enterprise. They superficially did a lot of Communist-type stuff.
As to what is wrong with secession, I think it follows that if you are wanting to leave the United States you aren’t patriotic and further aren’t interested in solving national and international level style problems.
Now I personally think the alleged patriotism of the type expressed by Sean Hannity or Glen Beck (or Joe Lieberman) is simplistic, and it reminds me of the way a four year old loves their parents (i.e. “my Dad is Spiderman! Iraqis love him! I don’t believe he tortures people!” this is uncritical hero worship). But trying to make your country and community reflect positive shared values is patriotism in my opinion.
Secession is “taking your ball and going home”.
P.S. After all of the Mexican-hating, I get a kick out of sheapenny quoting that “We hold these truths to be self-evident,that [sic] all men are created equal,that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are life,liberty [sic] and the pursuit of happiness”
P.P.S. President Obama has never said “always take advantage of a crisis”. That is a lie. Why would you lie about the President sheapenny? Is your agenda so pathetic that you have to lie to push it?
AzBlueMeanie, categorically dismissing information because you don’t like the URL doesn’t win you points. There are probably sites and sources that I am unlikely to agree with but I’ll look at them anyway.
I didn’t hear any response to the question “What’s wrong with secession?” Perhaps you are even now researching a future post on the issue. I look forward to reading it.
As for mental illness, I simply suggest that you allow Bachman and Hannity to bring up the point on their own if they are ever put on trial.
Rip Van Winkle is still lost in 1940 consumed by his hatred for FDR who saved this country and his sorry ass. Where were you in the last eight years when George W. Bush tore up the Constitution and set the Bill of Rights afire, exercising dictatorial powers without any checks and balances from a neutered and cowardly Congress? Time to seat the Truth Commission: Moving Forward by Looking Back, by Thomas R. Pickering and William S. Sessions http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/22/AR2009032201945.html. Lawyer up and get ready for the war crimes tribunal.
Actually Thane, I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that they suffer from a mental disorder that would explain their actions. They would have a legal defense for lack of mental capacity.
Personally, I believe they are fully cognizant of their actions. They are dangerous demagogues playing a dangerous game by inciting others to violence who may not be mentally stable. There are hateful people in this world who just need someone to tell them that their hatred is justified in the name of God or country or whatever to act out.
When you cite Lew Rockwell, I stop listening. I am familiar with that crap.
Michelle makes no decisions on her own. She gets all her directives from God:
“I didn’t want to go to law school. I had no desire to go to law school. And He said to me one night in college, He said, Michele, if you will be steadfast and diligent, I will take you to law school. Oh, okay, Lord. All right.”
God also chose her husband and “called [her]to run for United States Congress.”
http://minnesotaindependent.com/14077/mnindy-video-in-2006-speech-michele-bachmann-said-god-told-her-to-run-for-congress
So is God sending this message for “orderly revolution” or is Michelle?
From The Declaration of Independence;
“when in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth,the separate and equal station to which the laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the causes which impel them to separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident,that all men are created equal,that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness….
As for myself I have ,after 83 years, just thought I should forget what is going on around me and live out my years.
I lived through F.D.R. and saw him threaten the Supreme Court with more members unless they did what he told them!
Iam NOT going to judge his destruction of our Constitution and the separation of powers that he undertook in that time of the Great Depression.
But today as I look around you people have no idea what we faced then, and for this President to say to” always take advantage of a crisis,” to futher HIS OWN GOALS and NOT THAT OF THE PEOPLE IS TREASON!
As the certain commentator that is mentioned above I wish to put a certain amount of distance between myself and Sean Hannity (1 mile) and Glenn Beck (1/4 mile).
Sean Hannity has always been a supporter of pre-emptive US war policy and any coverage he offers to Rep. Michele Bachmann is just to cover a time slot and provide filler for ads for his radio show, nothing more. If any state actually seceded he would be slinging lines from Abraham Lincoln like it was going out of style. I only listen to Mr. Hannity if I am trapped in my car and I can’t find a good song to listen to on 94.5 FM KOOL.
Glenn Beck is another case, while he incorrectly claims to be libertarian from time to time, he is at least a sincere advocate of Americanism (whatever form that might take in his head) and lawful and just government (in my opinion).
As for “advocating overthrow of Government”. No need to apply that to Backmann or Beck (I won’t say it doesn’t apply to Hannity) as they are the are advocating a return to the lawful and just government of the united States. It is those parties who support the expansion of government beyond its charter (the constitution) that should be worried.
http://www.amazon.com/Who-Killed-Constitution-American-Liberty/dp/0307405753
As for characterizing Backmann and Hannity as paranoid schizophrenics, I respectfully suggest that you leave the psychiatric diagnosis of schizophrenia to licensed and trained professionals. Alleging that your political opponents have a mental illness is what communists used to do – you don’t really want to go there – do you?
http://www.google.com/search?q=communist+psychiatry
Lastly, what’s wrong with secession? You seem to imply that it would be a bad idea.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods55.html
I think back to October when she basically said Obama and many House Democrats were un-American and need to be investigated. I wonder if she has submitted her bill authorizing investigations of her fellow Congressmen for un-American activities? I also wonder if her secssionist revolution garbage fits the bill?
From my understanding her words don’t pass the test to fall under they cited law. What I think is funny is her idea of an “orderly revolution.” What the heck is that?
FREE SPEECH IS ONE THING, BUT THIS PERSON BACHMAN (ALONG WITH HANNITY ) ARE VERY DANGEROUS PEOPLE AND SHOULD BE STOPPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FREE SPEECH IS ONE THING, BUT THIS PERSON BACHMAN (ALONG WITH HANNITY ) ARE VERY DANGEROUS PEOPLE AND SHOULD BE STOPPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The first test of this Code of law against overthrowing the government will be to see if any of these homeland terrorists get put on the “no fly” list.